Ancient Rites
Wywiad przeprowadził Wouter Roemers
The late '80s and early '90s were an important time for the evolution of extreme metal. As Poland was ravaged by early death - and black metal hordes such as Christ Agony, Graveland, Mastiphal, Vader and Xantotol the rest of Europe did not limp behind. From the unlikely place of Belgium, the tiny country centered between Holland, Germany and France, two acts arose that would become the genre's Belgian underground pillars: Ancient Rites and Enthroned. Masterful Magazine caught up with frontman, lyricist and history buff Gunther Theys (vocals) to talk about the band's formation and early days, their experiences touring the world and the early black metal scene, its philosophy and mentality. Furthermore, Theys offers us a brief look into the future of Ancient Rites... Last man standing! Victory or Valhalla!
Hello Gunther! Good to talk to you. It's always a pleasure to interview a Belgian band here at Masterful Magazine. An in-depth interview with Ancient Rites was long overdue here, as in the past we had interview with Polish proto-black metal acts Mastiphal and Xantotol. I hope you're in the mood to tell us about your musical undertakings - past, present and future...
The pleasure is mine.
Let us go back in time a bit first. The band formed in 1989 together with equally legendary Belgian extreme metal acts Agathocles, Insanity Reigns Supreme, Suhrim, etc. How would you describe the Belgian scene at the time and Ancient Rites' demo days in general – were there much opportunities for bands like Ancient Rites back in the day?
We always found ourselves a bit in an isolated position. Our style was not at all popular back then because the majority of the crowd listened to glam, heavy metal or crossover, few were interested in a band with occult/historical themes. Because we differed we did get noticed and build a strong local following, but only after returning from successful gigs abroad A.R. were placed on the map nationally.
In 1990 you released the "Dark Ritual" demo, which installed Ancient Rites immediately internationally as one of Belgium's earliest black metal acts of note. Soon after the release of this demo Phillip died in a car crash and not long after, Stefan committed suicide. That must have been an ordeal, losing a co-founder so early on. You persevered and put together a new line-up consisting of guitarist Bart Vandereycken and drum tech-turned-drummer Walter Van Cortenberg.
The demo was received surprisingly well by an influential reviewer writing for a big metal magazine distributed in Holland and Flanders, which resulted in several concert offers. Of course the tragic death of band members, in a time when the band was ready to promote the demo, made things more difficult. Perseverance was an attitude co-founder Philip and I always shared and in a way he was an inspiration to carry on. Shortly after his death we still played an already scheduled gig. Symbolically, we placed his amp and guitar on stage and the empty spot on stage (and the entire gig) was our tribute to him. At that time Bart had not joined the band yet. We performed as a trio. His parents were at the gig to show their support. Soon after also guitarist Johan decided to leave the band, he no longer related to our style and lyrics and that is when Bart joined the band. We continued as a trio and with this new line up we pushed our sound into a more extreme direction.
Around this time the Norwegian black metal scene was arising due to acts of church arson, murder and such. Contrary to many black metal bands of the day, Ancient Rites continued to perform live nationally and internationally. Gigs were boycotted, band members were threatened both verbally and physically, bomb threats reached the clubs where the band played. An interesting time, I'm sure, do tell...
At that time existed an international network between bands, but not the way we know today, there was no internet so we communicated through letters, tape/shirt/vinyl/cd trading. One could tell a strong underground scene was growing internationally, the mainstream had not picked up on the style yet but when the events in Norway happened gutter press jumped on the phenomena and so did the major metal magazines. We were one of the very few of that particular scene to play live, even toured abroad, and a lot of the hype, including the negative one, was focussed on us because we were more "accessible". State security took an interest in Ancient Rites and a member of the secret police afterwards told me an investigation took place and we were followed on our steps and later interrogated because our communication was found at the homes of several suspects. To the authorities it appeared like an international conspiracy but that was not the case, things were not planned or organised at all. During those times there were bomb threats of anonymous people and boycotts from religious groups. During my stay in Athens I was interviewed by Greek TV but was announced, by mistake or not, as "leader of Ancient Rites and Burzum". Some believed I had escaped from prison and fled to Greece, crazy situations. Nowadays the bomb threats are also made by political groups and the boycotts are also inspired/organised by the authorities, media and moral majority, the political correct dictators who do not tolerate when a band praises the ancient European culture and dares to question Islamic fundamentalism. You see, it was alright as long as we criticized Christianity, but one cannot touch more recent through mass migration imported religions because that is considered racist. We always questioned all religions.
After a number of EPs, promo recordings and split releases with the likes of Enthroned, Thou Art Lord and Uncanny, Ancient Rites in 1994 wrote, rehearsed and recorded material for what would become "The Diabolic Serenades". The album was recorded, mixed, and mastered by Louis Jans at Studio 20 in Tienen, Belgium. "The Diabolic Serenades" was released through Belgian label After Dark Records, which would declare bankruptcy soon after. I guess this was a period of mixed emotions; proud to have released your band's debut, but a bitter pill to swallow considering the label ripped the band off, left you with bad to non-existent distribution and little royalties to speak of?
It was rather frustrating to go on tour and our album being released just afterwards because of the label's lack of professionalism. We toured Europe, the interest was there but we could not offer our album to the crowds, talking about missed chances. Even more disappointing was the fact we got ripped off by one of the label owners we considered a friend. In the process we lost money as we had invested in the studio recordings, artwork and photo shoots ourselves. The world does not belong to honest people; the person who ripped us off now has a thriving business, probably we involuntarily invested in building his business.
In support of "The Diabolic Serenades" you did the 'Descending into Darkness Tour' in 1994. There are live videos available on YouTube for the tracks 'Crucifixion Justified (Roman Supremacy)' and 'From Beyond the Grave'. Not many black metal acts were actively touring and there was some adversity between the death – and black metal scenes. How do recall the band's first venture into international touring?
The reactions were intense, often positive however sometimes people were shouting insults or throwing glasses at us while we were on stage. Many people did not comprehend the style and saw the paint as a Kiss thing and our music as noise and the lyrics as very negative. Keep in mind that this was the era when thrash bands started to write about the environment and social matters. Crossover was the new hype. When I invited those who fought us hidden in the crowd to confront us openly, they never showed. Same goes for the people behind the anonymous bomb threats. Personally, we never felt any adversity towards death metal because we came from the old school scene where both terms were often used to describe the same style. Besides, there were elements of "both" styles in our music, even traditional heavy metal. We always have been a band striving for an authentic sound and elements of different types of extreme metal could be found in our sound, a legacy of the styles we listened to over the years but we did our own thing with that legacy and this made us a bit difficult to label, people like to think in categories. But it is true, we were pioneering under the name of black metal, only, not with a typical sound that most connected to the genre over the years. After the murders, suicide and church burnings in Norway which was spread out over the newspapers the majority expected a band to sound Norwegian.
1996 saw the release of "Blasfemia Eternal" through Holland's Mascot Records. Once more recorded, mixed, and mastered by Louis Jans at Studio 20 in Tienen, Belgium the album featured elaborate occult artwork and detailed liner notes explaining the inspirations and meaning of each track. At this juncture the corpse paint was dropped in favour of a more neutral look. Vandereycken abruptly left the band due to his disappointment and disgust with the music business, and required you to seek session guitarists - including Mike Verhoeven (Pentacle), Chris Gamble (Absu, Blood Storm, Goreaphobia), Erik Sprooten (Inquisitor), Anders "Blakkheim" Nyström (Katatonia), Michael Nicklasson (Luciferion) and Emil Nödtveidt (Ophthalamia, Swordmaster) - only ten days before the European tour in support of this record was to start!
To us the paint was not an obligatory thing and we saw it turn into a trend. At one point almost everyone was using it and when the style was picked up by major labels B.M. "stars" had make-up artists involved. To us, it was not a matter of art but to generate a vile feeling of darkness, the intention was very unglamorous in fact, like a ritual before battle, not to live up to a young girls' Hollywood vampire dream. So, we did not drop the paint for commercial reasons. On the contrary, we wanted the audience to focus on our work, not the image. It was an attempt to de-glamorise the scene. It had a lot of meaning during these first years but when kids turned up looking like clowns wearing mainstream shirts we felt something went wrong. Sometimes we still used paint, sometimes we didn't. So many people started to demand they only wanted to see us with paint. As a joke I stated in an interview people should ask at the entrance before paying if we would use corpse paint that night or not and depending on the answer they could return home or buy a ticket. Believe it or not, people were actually doing that, they failed to see the irony 
in my words. We then decided to drop the paint. Not that we suddenly changed or turned against it but the scene had changed and we did not really want to be a part of the shallow circus it had turned into. Commercially, it would have been safer to ignore the evolution but we always were a bit of a stubborn band doing things under our conditions. We did not wish to be dictated by scene rules invented by people who just discovered the scene no matter if they were music industry business men or new fans. Perhaps we should have ignored the trend but press and the new trend jumpers were also complaining we looked black metal but did not sound Norwegian. The Norwegian scene always respected us because we did our own thing but the masses did not understand. By dropping the paint we also wanted to avoid the clichés and those expectations. But I don't regret we were one of the first B.M. bands to use paint. Back in those days only bands like Mayhem, Beherit, Blasphemy, Ancient Rites and a handful of others used corpse paint. Those days I still cherish. Yes, the abrupt leave of guitarist Bart ten days before our first headline tour was very inconvenient. I understood his reasons but the timing was very bad. We toured Europe with different guitarists flying in and we always had to change our set according to which songs the guitarists in question handled best. Intense times but I enjoyed every minute. The more difficult things became the more determined we got.
In support of "Blasphemia Eternal" you toured Europe and the UK several times with names like Deicide, Morbid Angel, Rotting Christ, Impaled Nazarene, Six Feet Under, Malevolent Creation, At the Gates, Cradle Of Filth and Bewitched. Was it difficult combining these lengthy touring jaunts with the jobs that waited at home to get the rent paid and families fed?
This was one of the reasons why our guitarist Bart left, he saw everyone making money on our backs: labels, tour promoters, we even got ripped off by our own "friends" and we did not receive a penny. Meanwhile he was under pressure at home because he worked for his fathers' independent business. No job = no money. Soon after he left I received a phone call of Cradle of Filth's management to ask for his phone number which I handed over, but he refused their offer. He had a certain pride, if not with AR not with anyone was his idea. He was disappointed that A.R., although being pioneers, never got a financial break. It is true, fortune seldom did shine upon us. Well, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger is my device but not everyone is that determined and get sick of it all t one point. It wasn't only the money but the lack of appreciation and rip offs that made him decide to quit, a few too many disappointments. Only, he should have played the tour as was agreed upon and called it a day afterwards.
"Fatherland", the all-important third album and second release for Mascot Records, marks the band's more epic and melodic era and rise out of the underground. It saw the installation of a trans-European line-up with Dutch guitarist Erik Sprooten (of pre-Centurian thrash/speed metal act Inquisitor) and Finnish guitarist Jan "Örkki" Yrlund (ex-Lacrimosa) in mid-1997. This also marked your first recordings at Spacelab Studio in Tönisvorst, Germany with producers Oliver Phillips and Christian Moos.
On "Fatherland" new line-up was presented. New, more technical, musicians joined the band and technical skills improved in general. Each musician had his own style/approach (how it should be!). Originality always was highly appreciated within our ranks. Every band member had a long tradition in metal. We already were into the metal scene even before black/death metal was created. We obviously take part in that scene but our roots and approach differ from the other bands in our style and older (traditional metal and first generation black/death) and other influences shine on through as well. Also, we ignore to this day what is popular or fashionable at the moment and go our own way. We always played what we instinctively felt without ever 
considering what the press/audience might think of it. We try to achieve a balance between aggression and melancholy, brutality and atmosphere. Unlike most other bands in the B.M. scene we want to achieve a clear, tight and heavy sound/production. Surely we respect primitive black metal but because of our ancient heavy metal roots we settle for a tighter sound. We try to improve with each release and wish to avoid stagnation. It is our aim to grow without selling out and evolve in a natural way. We have a natural 80's metal touch to our music because A.R. started in that era but at the same time we have a modern approach. Our sound contains different aspects of metal and even elements of Classical, Medieval and Folk music can be detected in our music. We play what we feel, there is no real A.R. recipe, just emotions, dreams and visions we try to put to music. A classical musician once told us that the structure of our songs (including the more extreme metal parts) is similar to the way medieval musicians composed their music, I can't think of a better compliment. We never analyze our music, we try to achieve a balance of different atmospheres that fit to the concept of the band.
The "Fatherland" album also saw the lyrics considerably toning down the Satanic and occult overtones in favour for themes of European history and heritage. Were you tired of Satanic ramblings and did you feel the need to incorporate your interest in history into the band's concept?
The historical aspect always has been present hence the "Ancient" part in our band name. History, poetry, literature, the dark side, travels, nature, amongst other things, will always remain a source of inspiration. But I don't want my lyrics to be one dimensional, therefore I try to avoid a too "sloganesque" approach. My life seems to be a constant quest for knowledge, meanwhile I try to improve my writing skills. It truly is an almost impossible task (and challenge!) to describe for instance the rise and fall of a civilisation in a few lines but I will continue trying to catch the essence of what history has been providing me: thousands of years of historical events to take inspiration from. Also masters of literature such as Lord Byron, Shelley, Baudelaire are influence. If only their spirit could guide my hand! Never expect "I sodomize you in the name of Satan" type lyrics, they are amusing and I can enjoy a nihilistic approach from time to time, but they are not at all my approach. I do not wish to preach but somehow I want to offer something through my lyrics. Even when they are touching upon dark occult subjects they are always rooted in reality and never based on fairytales. Reality often is stranger than fiction, larger than life. One certainly does not need dragons or demons to achieve a gloomy atmosphere. Even when referring to Satanism I prefer a realistic (philosophical) approach, and if I mention mythical names such as Lucifer it has a symbolic meaning. I like to believe that the lyrics I write are not naive or cheap. Also concerning lyrics we are after authenticity. When for instance a poem of the French writer Baudelaire was the main source of inspiration I find it important to include parts in the original language. When I describe a place in Flanders or Holland it contributes to the concept to give the song a Dutch title. Latin philosophers should be quoted in Latin, German literature has to be presented partly in German tongue and so on...Another reason why I like to write in different languages is that sometimes certain expressions sound best in that particular tongue. Also this way of working offers variety in sound because every language has a typical colour. Besides this international approach illustrates perfectly the Ancient Rites attitude, it is also a sign of respect towards the foreign fans and creates an extra bond.
At this time Ancient Rites had managed to draw the attention of conservative religious groups and misunderstanding authorities due to the band's historically rich, factually correct inspired and generally literate socio/political lyrics that are full of (inverted) religious symbolism. Gunther, you always have had a fascination with Flemish and European history and particularly the Middle Ages. How did you react to all these accusations that were thrown at the band around this time period?
Especially in Belgium the press, authorities and moral majority targeted us for the fact we also cultivate the rich history of Flanders which they consider a threat to the in 1830 manufactured Belgian identity. Our band focuses on ancient/medieval history and what we consider real identity, in our case that is Flanders. When foreign bands cultivate their roots they are welcomed with open arms in this country but not their own, that is considered politically incorrect. It's a price I knew we had to pay resulting in boycotts and bad press, even on national TV. State security considers us as troublemakers and our gigs are often treated like risky football matches with riot police ready to march out as was the case when we played in West Flanders. They indeed had to march out but not to our gig, there was a lot of violence at a House/Techno party in the same region that same night, a party which was sponsored by the local authorities! The self-hate of many of our "own" people keeps on surprising me. I know the reasons are the current political climate and the complex situation of a country like Belgium but still, not many Irish will say they are against their Irish identity for instance. The biggest enemies of Flanders are often the Flemish people themselves, unfortunately, well brainwashed.
Nevertheless despite all these hardships and tribulations your first two records "The Diabolic Serenades" and "Blasfemia Eternal" in time would become quintessential black metal classics in their own right. Can you imagine why? In hindsight, what do you think of these two albums today, now more than ten years later?
Even back then many international metal artists of established extremer metal bands realised we were doing something different. Often when I went to see a gig they came over for a talk and knew about the band, but the mainstream metal press and bigger labels never picked up on that nor did the majority of the metal audience who comfortably settled for a more typical sound/image something we always refused to provide. Today we have a larger following then we did back then, now when those days are over. It is quite typical, isn't it? But I don't complain, we did what we felt was right and were not inspired by any trend or the Dollar sign. The wrong decisions were made by the people we worked with which was beyond our control, we expected them to do their jobs. A few examples: the dispute (literally over one or two euro's per copy) between the DVD production company and our label Hammerheart when our DVD was released. Our own label refused to distribute our dvd because they demanded a bigger share of the dvd company's profit. Meanwhile they missed the chance of being one of the first labels to release a professional BM dvd on the market and in that process spoiled it for us too. Another example: when the first BM tour took place in Europe our label After Dark failed to have the cd out on time and then ripped everyone off including fans ordering the album and each other. And when "Fatherland" was voted cd of the month in English Terrorizer magazine our label back then had no distribution at all in England. Good press but no decent distribution. Osmose were interested from the start but thought our music wasn't grindcore enough and said we'd be signed if we would change style. When "Blasfemia Eternal" did well, they regretted they had not signed us, but things were too late. They did re-release our first album at one point but again too late, not when we were pioneering and out there touring Europe as one of the first B.M. bands and when the demand was big. Nuclear Blast approached us, one of their talent hunters witnessed us on tour in England which convinced him so he advised the label to sign us but he moved on to another job and with him our chance for a better deal at that time. Later they included a track of us on a compilation album but again way too late. They missed the boat at the time and in that process so did we. Nowadays people talk about the old cult days of Ancient Rites and how different/original we were but when the time was right no one in the metal industry wanted to hear and screwed up. Our situation reminds me a bit of the story of the Ramones. Everyone regards them as pioneers but those inspired by their work made it big while they hardly sold any records compared to their dedication and constant touring. Now ¾ of the original members are dead and everyone praises the band. No use in fretting over it, the cards lay on the table as they are. I am proud of what we achieved without any support of managers or labels and I am glad I never was a materialistic person into it for the fame or glory or I would have turned into a frustrated person.
Late 1999 saw the release of the best-of/compilation "The First Decade 1989-1999" – which compiled material from the first three albums with all tracks from the "Dark Ritual" demo. This retrospective album was coupled with several high-profile festival appearances all over Europe.
The album gave us a chance to appear on mega fests and the appreciation we received against all odds was a pleasant surprise. Unfortunately, the atmosphere within the band was bad at that time, no fun at all. Different characters/attitudes resulted in an oppressed kind of hostility. We only got along fine on stage, musically it worked, not personally. Touring no longer was a pleasant thing. Imagine people who dislike each other being stuck for weeks on a small place like a tour bus. The situation exploded a few years later dramatically, in violence midst a tour.
In 2001 you once again holed up Spacelab Studios in Tönisvorst, Germany with producers Oliver Phillips and Christian Moos to cut the "Dim Carcosa" recordings. The album sees the further incorporation of medieval and folklore influences with elaborate and highly researched historical lyrics. After being targeted by religious fanatics in former years, boycotts now have become of a political kind since "Fatherland". Were the media and gutter press accusing the band of right-wing sympathies?
Of course. Very predictable and highly unoriginal. I did not care either. Anything better than being labelled politically correct. The fact we did not play the game according to politically correct dictatorship rules created further boycotts. Investigate my lyrics and one will find nothing there that breaks the law. The lyrics are a tribute to ancestry and since when is it forbidden to praise the European forefathers and their culture? Besides, I wrote about non European ancient civilizations too, like the Assyrian Empire for instance. What is it with the current mainstream metal industry? Where did it go wrong that all of a sudden they want extreme metal bands to behave like politically correct high school kids graduated at a local high school run by nuns who sing about the environment or love, peace and understanding? Sure it is accepted to write about gore, killing cops and rape in the name of Satan but when one writes lyrics intended as a tribute to ancient Europe and ancestry all hell breaks loose. That is why I am grateful I never cared about the public opinion or sales, I always have been free from these concerns. Art should be an expression of one's inspirations and personal interests, mind, philosophy. If this means I have to sell out to please Mother Theresa or Ghandi or the local dopeheads, Islamists, Jesus freaks or the moral majority I can't deliver I'm afraid. Once a manager told us what will the clergy think? Can you believe that? All these politically correct dictators should buy a ticket to the Siberian salt mines if they like it so much or go live under the Taliban regime or even better: buy white socks and sandals and grow a weed garden instead of dictating how Black/Viking Metal should be. The old B.M. underground scene was not like that at all. It is awfully mainstream to criticize Christianity, I'm not a follower either, but oh dear don't dare to question other prophets or more recently imported dogmatic religions. It is considered cool in the West to react against the clergy but those who usually are against the Church quickly hurry to defend the dogmas of these newly imported religions. I find that hypocrite, using two measures. And good grief, don't praise ancient Europe. Well, I have a passion for ancient civilizations and relate to ancestry ever since my childhood, so I won't change my passion to sell a few extra records or to get a spot on a mainstream fest. I know metal bands with lyrics about rape, murder, serial killers and Satan who put on a show on stage with women put in cages or who are being murdered with axes as a part of their theatre play/show, of course it's only a show but they don't want to play with a band like us because they find our lyrics "unpleasant" because we also dare to criticize Islamism. Idiots. Shallow nonsense is preferred.
Another promotional video was shot, this time for 'Victory or Valhalla (Last Man Standing)' with Finnish director Jari Koskela. He initially came in contact with the band through a tour of Finland he was organising for Ancient Rites. He had filmed two shows' worth of rough material and cut/edited in 24 hours to get the project completed. What led you to officially enlisting him to direct this video?
The guy had talent and captured the atmosphere of our work well. Plus, he was pleasant to work with. Our first official video was in fact 'Victory or Valhalla' and was shot in Finland during our first tour there and made by the same people who later made the "And the Hordes Stood as One" live dvd. The director Jari Koskela was talented and it was great working together with him. He also shot the Danse Macabre video during the DM tour in Finland.
In late 2001 Ancient Rites embarked on a three week European headline tour under the calling name of 'At the Gates of Dim Carcosa', taking them through the Czech Republic, Austria, Holland, Italy, Switzerland, France and Germany. Any special memories or stories you can share with us about this particular touring campaign?
We toured with a very old bus and we got pulled over by the police in Germany, the officer in charge wanted to impress his female colleague and forced us to visit a garage which was owned by a member of his family by the way. We were not allowed to travel on until certain things were "fixed" which would take a day and a night. In that process we missed a gig. A peculiar moment was when we got stuck in the Alps when our bus caught fire in the mountains at night. Since we stranded just behind a turn we decided to warn the approaching drivers to slow down to avoid they would crash into the bus around the corner. We were standing there with torches wearing combat clothes and I must say most people locked their car doors not certain about what our intentions were. The police there was great, they applauded our quick thinking. I could fill your entire magazine with bizarre stories. Life on the road is adventurous. Amusing was the French Drug squad. Our bus got pulled over, the police officer asked if we had drugs on board and he said "Better be honest, we will bring in the Drug Squad". Suddenly a police guy walks over to us carrying a small black poodle in his arms. He released the dog in the bus. That was the famous French Drug Squad We took a picture of the little hero too. These guys were ok too. We always have been a drug free band so we had nothing to hide.
2003 sees the release of the first Ancient Rites live package, the "...And the Hordes Stood As One" CD-DVD package, recorded at a sold out Biebob in Vosselaar. You spent a lot of your own money on getting the most professional production available. There were some troubles in getting it distributed and available to the fans. Hammerheart Records originally was supposed to release this in co-operation with a Finnish label. Why did this fell through at the end of the day?
The dvd production company and our label could not agree on the amount of profit that could be made and the wholesale price for each dvd copy. Hammerheart who talked us into making a dvd in the first place then pulled out. They only distributed the cd format of the show which they had released. Again, we had invested a lot of our own band money in the dvd/cd, our producers of Germany came over with a mobile studio, we hired a professional camera team etc We did not want a cheap live cd/dvd recorded through the PA system but regarded the live album in an old school way, as an important release like Metal bands used to do in the past. When I heard the distribution was halted I couldn't believe the greediness of people in the supposed Metal underground. Again it was a mistake made by others and unfortunately we paid the price, so did our fans who had to pay import prices to get a hold of the dvd.
In support of this release Ancient Rites undertook the 12-date European festival tour 'Generation Armageddon' with Blood Red Throne, Primordial, Septicflesh and Thyrfing. That tour was problematic, it was originally scheduled for October-November 2002 but prematurely cancelled. It was eventually rescheduled for April-May 2003. Despite its organisational troubles, which resulted in small backstages and limited time to shower/wash up, was this tour a success for Ancient Rites? I read something about lively soccer matches between the touring bands during off-time from the stage, is that right?
The bands got along fine and indeed one evening a game of football was organised between the bands. I was playing with the Swedes/Greeks against the Swedes/Irish and I remember Alan of Primordial storming towards the goal and as I was his last obstacle he tried to play on my ancestral sentiments "Gunther! Remember you're Northern! Let me pass!" lol! It was good fun. But it was also during this tour that the situation within Ancient Rites exploded. It rubbed off on the other bands as well, at one point there was a danger of a mass fight because they did not know what was going on and had been lied to. Matters got sorted. We continued the tour with only one guitarist who quickly had to learn certain parts he never had to play.
In November 2005 Ancient Rites sign with French quality label Season Of Mist. By January 2006 the recordings for "Rubicon" were finished at Spacelab Studios in Tönisvorst, Germany and the mixing phase was started. The album was released mid-May 2006. Touring would be limited, but the record was a critical and artistic success, no?
The album received great reviews and sold well. Also, from an artistic point of view it was a success: very comfortable too as the atmosphere in the band was great again after the line-up change.
Over the years Ancient Rites had has it fair share of bad luck with record labels. How is the deal with Season Of Mist working out, now that you've been with them for a few years? Is this the label that the band has strived to find for many years? Are you happy with their level of commitment, distribution channels and promotion they offer the band?
Season of Mist made clear from the beginning they would offer no tour support, which in a way was a shame, but at least their distribution was great and the promotion department organised many interviews and such. They did a good job. Financially, we were best off with Mascot Records. To this day we sometimes receive money from mechanical rights and airplay of our first three albums released and re-released through Mascot. We never received anything from our later albums released through the other labels, which again is unfortunate because these albums got a better distribution and were more successful. As I said fortune seldom shines on Ancient Rites.
Season Of Mist has a star-studded artist roster: Atheist, Cynic, Deströyer 666, The Dillinger Escape Plan, Leng Tch'e, Mayhem, Morbid Angel, Rotting Christ, Septicflesh, Watain, etc. Are there any plans to re-issue any/all of the old Ancient Rites albums via your current contract, be it in original form or remasters?
Mascot released the compilation album "The First Decade" when the band existed ten years. I contacted the Season of Mist label owner when A.R. celebrated its twenty years of existence to propose an album would be released like Mascot did. Another suggestion I made was a box containing all the old material which is sold out. They said they were only interested in a new full length with a possible bonus dvd.
Which brings us to today, Gunther. From what I read Ancient Rites is temporarily "on hold" due to employment – and family obligations from two or three members. Have you been writing and pre-producing new material these last few years? Do you anticipate to wait out for respective band members and their obligations – or will you be putting some kind of new line-up together, be it session – or full-time participants for studio – and roadwork?
The situation is a frustrating one. A few new tracks have been written, but life seems to have caught up on the band. Several members got married and became family men. One member left the band because of this and work obligations, other members deal with a limited amount of time because of working extra hours to pay the bills and one member stated he could not tour for three years and no gigs abroad. I can understand their situation, but it leaves A.R. in limbo. Musically, this line up works perfectly and we get along great on a personal level but fact remains the band seems to exist on paper only. Of course, I think the situation should change but it's rather difficult to find the right people who are technically able to walk in veterans' footsteps and on top relate to our philosophy. At the same time I don't want to step on toes because we go back such a long way. Plus, one can work with one session replacement, but if almost the entire band has to be filled with session replacements the situation is a lot more difficult. To fill this gap of silence I sometimes think an epic non-metal album with powerful orchestration and vocals could be interesting, music in the style of our intro of 'Thermopylae' but with war-drums, etc. Sometimes I like the idea to return to primitive black metal and release a no-nonsense extreme album. Stuff I can write on my own. I have the chance to create a medieval album too since I know musicians who play authentic medieval music and who are very much into the idea since they are Ancient Rites fans. Several options cross my mind but the cards are on the table in a confusing way. These three options do not solve the problem concerning tours, etc. Another trouble is our financial situation; since we do not play live, we no longer can pay for the rent of our rehearsal studio. On top, the studio we always recorded in since "Fatherland" does not exist any longer and the studio in which I worked with Lion's Pride went bankrupt. The labels do not have the same budgets available as in the old days because of the collapsing music industry and if we want to enter studio we need extra budgets to hire our old producers. We can't even pay our rehearsal rent anymore haha. Crisis everywhere. I haven't lost the will or dedication, but as you can see the problems are not only concerning band members and technical/personal/philosophical, but also regarding producers, rehearsal studio and financial. The other studio where I worked with Lion's Pride burnt down. Fate has cornered Ancient Rites. All worst case scenarios happened at the same time. The bad thing about bands is one has to rely on others.
In an earlier interview you mentioned that Julian the Apostate and Jozef Van Gansen have sparked your interest and lyrics are being written dealing with them. Julian the Apostate was the last non-Christian ruler of the Roman Empire, who attempted to revive traditional Roman religious practices at the cost of Christianity and in favour of Neoplatonic paganism. Jozef Van Gansen was pivotal as a leader of the Boerenkrijg and opposition against the French Revolution.
I have a soft spot for individuals who try to turn history when the battle is already lost. Characters like Julianus and Van Gansen are both tragic and heroic at the same time. They had vision, willpower and ideology but tried to accomplish the impossible. Time and fate was not on their side and therefore they consequently lost but not without leaving their mark on history. Ironically they almost succeeded. Individuals like these I try to save from oblivion and present to the listener who otherwise might not ever have heard of them. I think I relate to people like these because I recognise my own philosophy and situation in them. I too often feel I don't belong in this current society and modern world. My sentiments belong to a lost world that no longer exists. I do not close my eyes to the fact that everyone is a child of his own time but I do regret that our ancient pride and soul is lost. Like Julianus or Van Gansen I try to preserve what was in a world that has changed and against public opinion, outnumbered. Like Don Quichotte fighting windmills. Compare it to the brave Polish cavalry during WWII, they stood no chance against modern warfare but still they fought and perished. Also on the other side, when European volunteers defended the ruins of Berlin until the last man when their war was long lost. Or the 300 at Thermopylae, heroic in defeat. Always was more interested in the last outnumbered defenders of a fallen empire encircled by their enemies. There lies a certain dramatic beauty in their tragedy. It is easy to be brave on the winning side, not when the battle is lost. And that is how I see my life often as well, fighting lost battles. It doesn't prevent me from struggling on. Victory or Valhalla.
The music business in deep trouble, there's no doubt about that. Illegal downloading is killing smaller record stores and decent small labels are going bankrupt every single day. The sales of physical CD's is falling drastically each year and not only due to the recession of the last years. What's your opinion on all this, has Ancient Rites or any of the other bands you all were involved in suffered the consequences from all these events?
I understand that people like to download. It is an ideal way to get to know bands. But when I like a band or artist I always go out and buy the original. I guess in this I am old school too, I like to hold their work in my hands. Yes, the situation affected Ancient Rites as well. Studio budgets become smaller while life becomes more expensive. Studios we worked in no longer exist. Still one is expected to deliver the same quality as before which is difficult without the same budget. From this point of view I am glad to have founded Lion's Pride, the music is straight forward and no nonsense. Plug in and play, accent on a powerful sound. With a relatively small budget one can still deliver quality. A progressive often at times almost symphonic band like Ancient Rites requires a much bigger budget especially since these expectations are created with previous releases. But having said that my taste in music is wide, I would not mind to release a raw record sounding like the earliest days of black metal.
Thanks for the interview, Gunther. I'm sure the new Ancient Rites record will be massively epic again, once you come around to recording and releasing it. Godspeed to you, and hopefully Ancient Rites will be visiting Poland somewhere in a not too distant future...
The future is uncertain, but I will guard over the legacy of Ancient Rites and who knows what the future will bring. Fate is against us but my spirit is unbroken. Godspeed to you as well and thank you for this long conversation. Who knows one day we will stand on Polish soil again, I keep the best memories of touring Polska. Against the mainstream forever, I greet you all! Ancient Mother Europa in our hearts!
Info: www.season-of-mist.com/
Booking: www.ancientrites.be/
