Ironwood
Wywiad przeprowadził Wouter Roemers
Sydney, Australia-based Ironwood are probably one of the most interesting bands to debut recently. Taking a basis of folk/pagan metal and infusing it with progressive jams and highly technical performances their debut "Fire Water Ash" is truly something wonderful to behold. Masterful Magazine spoke with Ironwood's Henry Lauer (vocals, bass), Phil Brown (vocals, guitars) and Dan Nahum (drums).Hi Henry! Thanks for doing this interview with us! What are you and the rest of Ironwood currently up to?
Henry Lauer: We're in a strange period actually - the uneasy badlands between completing a debut album and preparing a follow up! Our debut, :Fire:Water:Ash:, took a long time to do - we suffered a litany of set-backs and struggles. Consequently, we're determined to hit out with our second release as quickly as possible - we'll be recording later this year for an early 2010 release. It will be a concept album called "Storm Over Sea".
Phil Brown: Whilst every band says this about their second album, we nonetheless see "Storm Over Sea" as a big step forward from our debut. The core of the Ironwood sound from the first album is still there, but I think we've also taking that core sound into lots of new and interesting areas, which is pretty exciting!
Your new album "Fire Water Ash" has been released a couple of weeks ago. As far as I was able to track down, it got raving response worldwide. Did you expect it to hit as big as it did?
HL: To be honest, we had no idea how the response would be because :Fire:Water:Ash: is somewhat unusual as a kind of progressive/metal/folk/other hybrid. It is really humbling to receive the positive critical and fan responses that we have. We are, of course, still an obscure underground band… but maybe we're beginning to found some kind of reputation or resonance.
PB: We'd still be making this music even if everyone absolutely hated it, but it certainly helps to hear that others are enjoying it!
Ironwood is the Anglicised equivalent of the Old Norse word "Jarnvidr". There's definitely a fascination with Germanic mythology. Can you tell us a bit about that?
HL: That comes largely from me, being an idiosyncratic form of Heathen - someone which finds nourishment in the reverberating echoes of pre-Christian Germanic spirituality.
Rather than try to re-invent the wheel, I'll direct you to a couple of websites that can explain what heathenism and the Germanic mythos mean to me. One is my own website on spirituality, heathenism and magic - Elhaz Ablaze (www.elhazablaze.com) and the other is the site for Hex Magazine (www.hexmagazine.com), for which I am one of the editors.
Were there any noteworthy legends, lore or scriptures in particular that inspired the lyrics of this new record?
HL: Absolutely. ‘The Raven Song', for example, is inspired by the image of Odin's mythic ravens, Huginn and Muninn (Thought and Memory). ‘The Serpent Seeks Its Tail' is a meditation on the nature of self, time and change taken through the metaphor of Old Norse cosmology. ‘River of Fire' is a possession song dedicated to the ecstatic shaman god Woden.
Not all the songs are directly inspired by Germanic mythology, but all are shot through with the animistic worldview that heathenism resonates with, and which as a band we strive to articulate.
I should point out that we try to use the myths, explore them, open them as doors into experience. We see mythology as a door into something experiential - not just an end in itself.
The lyrics deal with animism, heathenism, grief and creative exploration. From a lyrical perspective what song on the album do you feel most satisfied with?
HL: I'm happiest with the lyrics for ‘The Serpent Seeks Its Tail'. They're cryptic and you need to both know a bit about Norse myth and also about spirituality or psychological exploration to fully delve into them. I'm proud of the layering of emotions, ideas and states of consciousness that these lyrics contain.
PB: Of the lyrics I came up with, I'd have to say I'm most satisfied with ‘Love in Death'. Those lyrics are about death, and are mean a lot to me.
The dizzying level of technicality and progressive leanings in the music is definitely something that sets you apart from the majority of your folk/pagan metal peers. Any contemporary bands that you guys admire?
HL: Many! Personally my favourites at the moment include Pavor, Nick Cave, Agalloch, Between The Buried And Me, A Minority Of One and L'Acephale. Not all of these bands are super-technical, but they all manage to blow me away in one way or another.
Dan Nahum: We take issue with the notion that complexity/progression (musical, thematic) and viscerality/immediacy are natural opposites. Those traits can, in fact, support each other; bands such as Abigor, Emperor, Ulcerate, Deathspell Omega and Axis of Advance demonstrate that some of the most aggressive music can also be some of the most intelligent. Extreme metal is, of course, only a subset of the palette that Ironwood utilises...
PB: There's so many to choose from, but if I had to pick just one at the moment I'd say Maudlin Of The Well. Their albums Bath and Leaving Your Body Map were and still are a huge inspiration for me, particularly in terms of composition. Even though they basically broke up and turned into Kayo Dot (who also rule) they just put out a new album, and it absolutely kills!
I should also say that in addition to contemporary bands, there's plenty of bands from the past which are just as inspiring, if not more so. Gentle Giant in particular comes to mind for me. Whilst they were certainly a very technical and progressive band, it's the sense of adventure, creatively and experimentation within their music that I find really inspiring - that spirit of just going wherever the journey of the song takes you.
I really love the leads/solos on both guitars and bass on "Fire Water Ash". For a few years not too many bands played leads/solos anymore. What contributed to the leads getting a more prominent place in your compositions?
HL: It wasn't a conscious decision, more an organic unfolding. We see solos as a tool to move the song into a different space, to unfold a story - they are not merely occasions for showing off (even though they get pretty flashy). I think we are moving towards developing more intricate compositions over utilising solos, but solos will always have an integral role in our sound.
PB: Guitar solos can be quite a funny creature. On the one hand, there are definitely bands out there where the actual songs are more or less just a vehicle for the lead guitarist to show off how fast they can play. On the other, guitar solos have been around for as long as rock and metal music has, and I think they certainly have a part to play in the overall progression of a song, so long as they're played for the right reasons.
The vocal interaction between yourself (bass), Phil Brown (guitar) and Matt Raymond (guitar) is something that instantly sets you apart from many other bands in this genre. It's a great feature, too many extreme metal bands today lack in interesting vocal lines and interaction. Was this something you wanted to do for a long time, how difficult is it writing these vocal patterns?
HL: Thanks! We're very fortunate to have a really easy vocal alchemy; arranging our vocal patterns is one of the most fulfilling parts of our composition and arrangement process. At first it was quite challenging but over time as our confidence increased we became more intuitive and creative. "Storm Over Sea" will feature still more interweaving of vocal lines than the already-extensive layering on :Fire:Water:Ash:!
PB: It's great that you picked up on the fact the we have three vocalists, because for some reason a lot of reviewers have thought that just one of us is the lead vocalist, which is a bit frustrating, particularly when, for example, I end up getting credit for Matt or Henry's vocal performance!
Having three vocalists has meant we've been able to explore lots of different approaches, from 3 part clean harmonies to 3 part extreme vocal sections, and everything in between. There's just so much that can be done with voice beyond just having the one person sing the one vocal line.
With regards to creating music, how do you usually go about writing songs? Do the ideas begin with riffs, lyrics, or a mix? Does any member take the lead role over another?
HL: Usually each song is forged by one member of the band and then we collectively work it over until we're satisfied with it. Lyrics follow a similar path; sometimes we'll have a fragment of words and then weave music around it, sometimes the other way around. Ironwood is a creative democracy and we find that a balanced equilibrium tends to produce the best music.
PB: I think we're fortunate that the song writing doesn't just revolve around the one person coming up with everything, because it means that different aspects of our compositional styles and personalities all end up melding together and contributing to Ironwood's overall sound.
Henry, in my review I compared your exotic bass playing to the likes of German underground death metal icons Pavor. In the more serene parts Ironwood also reminds me of Pink Floyd in instances. The influences seem to be far and wide, any comments?
HL: Well first of all, as I said to you earlier by email, I think Pavor's bassist is in a league of his own so while I greatly appreciate the comparison I think I have quite a ways to go before I could presume to equal his genius. I can see where you are coming from though - we both use six string basses and we both attempt to beat the technical lead guitarists at their own game!
The Pink Floyd comparison is spot on. We really have tried to incorporate as rich a range of influences as possible, as is reflected in our musical tastes. For example in the last couple of weeks I've been listening to a bit of Depeche Mode and Led Zeppelin, and re-discovering how these bands have left their mark on what we do - even though when you hear Ironwood you are unlikely to think of these bands immediately.
The main thing for us is to create flowing landscapes and then to carry the listener on a journey. We want to transform your state of consciousness; we're aiming to dial straight into our listener's Deep Mind. And so naturally we're drawn to bands of any genre that have a similar impact.
Prior to this independently released debut, you self-produced a self-titled promo EP in 2006. Do both differ greatly as far as the band's direction is concerned?
HL: Our debut album, :Fire:Water:Ash:, really is a continuation of what was begun with the demo, albeit with some minor course corrections, better production standards and a more fertile creative process.
The pagan/folk metal genre is currently booming and experiencing unprecedented heights of popularity in both Europe as the US. Do you feel you have missed vital opportunities due to not being able to tour?
HL: Absolutely. We do perform here in Australia and, for example, this year have played a handful of simply brilliant nights… but we don't particularly cater to the Australian metal scene. I'm actually travelling through the North West United States at the moment and there is such a rich neo-folk/extreme metal/experimental music scene here - totally puts Australia to shame.
Genre related tours such as Paganfest and Heidenfest are selling out venues across Europe and the US. How do you feel about tours like that?
HL: Well to be honest we are wary of being pinned as "another pagan metal band". The fad will probably die down in popularity eventually and we're very different to most of these groups. I feel we have more in common with the experimental branches of the genre (Agalloch, Enslaved, L'Acephale, to name a few) than with the more populist groups. We do share an affinity with pagan metal in general, of course - but we've worked hard to transgress genre boundaries with our music and would hate to fall back into them.
All of which isn't to say that we'd be anything less than absolutely keen to participate in something like Paganfest - one thing I like about these tours is that they seem to have a very positive and even celebratory spirit which is naturally a great atmosphere for bands and audiences.
What is it you'd like to see for Ironwood in the near future?
HL: While we're proactive and motivated, Australia isn't the greatest base for launching ourselves into the world. We really would like to find reputable and committed European/U.S. labels to help us better promote/distribute :Fire:Water:Ash: and also to release the follow-up, "Storm Over Sea". We've started putting out the word and hopefully the landslide of positive reviews we've received for :Fire:Water:Ash: will win over someone with the right qualities that we need. And we'd just kill to be able to perform in Europe and the U.S. in 2010 as well!
Thanks a lot for your time. If there's anything else you want to say to conclude the interview, here's the space!
HL: Many, many thanks for the interview (and review) - underground bands like ours deeply appreciate the support of zines like Masterful.
:Fire:Water:Ash: is available direct from our myspace page (www.myspace.com/ironwoodband), plus distros such as Autumn Wind Productions, Red Stream, Aurora Australis, Einheit, Basar North America, cdBaby, iTunes and maybe others I've forgotten!
Info/booking: www.myspace.com/ironwoodband
